tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8830933917349183001.post4086606750442761417..comments2023-09-15T05:24:29.125-07:00Comments on What lies within: The highs and lows....of the spiritual pathMargaret Dempseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17385395565359693331noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8830933917349183001.post-81738427236255320092008-11-30T08:47:00.000-08:002008-11-30T08:47:00.000-08:00Thank you Margaret!and thank you also for taking t...Thank you Margaret!<BR/><BR/>and thank you also for taking the time and trouble to read & respond to my comment in a lot of detail.<BR/><BR/>The life training (at that time) was a large group training, quite similar to EST in many ways and on the face of it, more spiritual & less confrontational <BR/>than EST. Both of the founding trainers (K. Bradford Brown & Roy Whitton) acknowledged that they had done EST & that EST & Werner Erhard<BR/>had inspired them to create their own transformational training. I was lucky that when I took the Life Training it was the first one held in the UK & both <BR/>Brad & Roy were the trainers. Brad was a total inspiration to me. At that time he would have been about 55 (he is still alive now) and was a Clinical <BR/>Psychiatrist in America. I have never met anyone with so much insight as Brad. He was like a Father to me, but scary too, because he seemed to be able to <BR/>look inside of people & know exactly what to do or say to them. Sometimes he would push peoples buttons to get them to look at issues they had or feelings <BR/>that were unresolved. At that time because the training was new they were the only trainers. I wanted so much to be like Brad that I put my name down to be <BR/>trained as a trainer for the life training. You could do this & they had a programme called 'The Trainer Striker Programme'. There was no curriculum as such <BR/>but you had to get very involved in the UK side of the Kairos Foundation that organised the trainings & assist & put out for more & more demanding positions <BR/>within the organisation & trainings until you started being comfortable with leading introductory evenings etc & in the end basically create yourself as 'A <BR/>Trainer'.<BR/><BR/>I started to feel very inadequate during this time because a lot of the people involved in the trainings seemed to be wealthy or well qualified & I felt they <BR/>had more to offer than me. They also seemed much more confident with presenting talks in front of large groups than I did. I realised that my goal of <BR/>becoming 'A Trainer' was going to be a step learning curve. Also I found the other people on the Trainer Programme to be very competitive & quite a lot of <BR/>ill feelings & petty resentments surfaced for me & others.<BR/><BR/>I realise that it is the ego that is protecting it's own illusion of separation, I realised this when I received Shaktipat years earlier - I had a direct <BR/>experience of being at one with everything & everybody around me. In fact I had the certain knowledge that I was 'at source' that I was in fact creating <BR/>everything, I could feel the connection inside of me, it was as real as anything else I have ever experienced. When I say 'I', what I don't mean is who I <BR/>think I am i.e. Harry, but some part of me that is also a part of everyone & everything else. This must be a part of god that is within us all. the creator.<BR/><BR/>It was because of this experience that I wanted to try & help others experience the same truth. But how? <BR/><BR/>Like you I have spent years searching for answers, reading countless books, trying things like EST & the other trainings, Reiki, Rebirthing. Now I don't <BR/>really read those books any more. In many ways I have less answers now than when I started out. I have realised that their is no knowing, god will decide when <BR/>s/he will reveal herself to us. Like with me after Shaktipat, but I can't dial it up like ordering a pizza. What I have never understood is why have these <BR/>things happened to me? I have not had a particularly exotic life. I have never been to India. When I received Shaktipat I was living in a flat in Clapham. I <BR/>was totally depressed & on my own. I had no interest in spiritual matters at that time. I had become a vegetarian 3 or 4 years earlier. One day I walked <BR/>across Clapham common to the bookshop & bought a book called 'The Guru's of India', this was totally out of keeping for me. I went home read the book & most <BR/>of the dozen or so guru's that the book profiled didn't appeal to me at all. Apart from one 'Swami Muktananda', what he said made some sense & I liked the <BR/>look of him, something about his face seemed totally familiar & his eyes seemed to be looking straight into me. Anyway, I thought I don't do guru's & anyway <BR/>their are none around here. I put the book down & went out to the corner shop to buy a pint of milk. In the shop window was a card that read 'Introductory <BR/>evening next Saturday - Swami Muktananda's UK Siddha Yoga Ashram - 1 Bonneville gardens - Clapham. Bonneville gardens being the street next to the street I <BR/>lived in.<BR/><BR/>I was totally awed by this synchronicity. I started thinking that perhaps there was no free will in life at all. That my whole life & circumstances must have <BR/>been planned by some higher force & that even the flat I bought in Clapham must have been planned by some higher power so that I would make this connection <BR/>with this guru.<BR/><BR/>I went on the Saturday night to the 'Introductory Evening' it had been cancelled because they were having a meditation weekend. But the ashram manager was <BR/>friendly & I loved the atmosphere of the large Victorian house that was the ashram. Muktananda or Baba as they called him did not actually live there, he was <BR/>in India, but all around the walls were photographs of this amazing guru & his guru 'Nityananda'. The ashram manager said, 'if you want you can go upstairs & <BR/>sit at the back of the meditation hall, some of the ashramites are chanting' just sit in if you want. I was nervous but went up & sat in the corner, the room <BR/>was lit by candles & incense was burning. About half an hour later it ended & the ashram manager came up & said 'if you want before you go approach the puja <BR/>at the front of the room & take a mantra card'. I walked up and took this little card with photo of Muktanada on, some writing & the mantra. I thanked the <BR/>people at the Ashram & went home. That was the night I received shaktipat. I went home & started having amazing visions of Muktanada standing in front of me, <BR/>with his eye's burning into me. It was totally profound, at one point he touched me between the eyes & it was like being hit by a bolt of lightning. I <BR/>thought I had gone mad, I was laughing, crying, everything seemed to be shimmering & vibrating around me. Sparks were coming out of the wall. I couldn't <BR/>sleep because every time I opened my eyes I could see Muktananda's eyes staring into mine. Later I tried to sleep & I dreamt I was bitten by a snake. This & <BR/>other experiences (which I now know to be kriyas) went on for about a week, I never knew what would happen next. The final thing that happened was when I sat <BR/>one evening, cross legged on the floor, with my little mantra card photo propped on a small table & a candle in front. I closed my eyes & after about 10 <BR/>minutes I felt something gently pushing against my back. Gradually my head went forward until It touched the floor in front of me & then WHAM!!! energy & <BR/>sound exploded from the base of my spine up & out through the top of my head, at that point I was one with god, I did not exist as an individual any more, <BR/>although, somehow, I still knew I was me witnessing this. After I just sat on the floor for hours. I went back to the ashram & told them about all this & <BR/>they just smiled & said 'you have received spontaneous Shaktipat. I continued attending courses, early morning meditation & chanting & satsang at this ashram <BR/>for about 4 years (they gave me a key to the door like the other ashramites because I lived around the corner). In the end so many people were coming that <BR/>the local residents complained about the parking & they had to move away to a large country house in Hampshire.<BR/><BR/>I realise this is rather a long 'comment', I hadn't meant for it to go on for so long, I just started writing & then one thing led to another. Please feel <BR/>free not to publish this if it is too long for your blog & don't feel obliged to send a long comment back, I am sure you are busy with your own stuff.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again<BR/><BR/>HarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8830933917349183001.post-74972944037706818192008-11-29T10:36:00.000-08:002008-11-29T10:36:00.000-08:00Hello HarryThank you very much for your comment. ...Hello Harry<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for your comment. I wondered whether or not to answer it through a new post but I think there is too much gold in it not to give some response directly to the comment.<BR/><BR/>The way that I came to Landmark Education was strange in that many years ago someone told me about an introductory evening for the Forum. I went along (I don't remember anyone being with me). The first thing a man with an Australian accent said was 'you can have anything you want for yourself and your life from doing this education'. <BR/><BR/>My immediate reaction 'was yeah right, no way' and then for the first time in my life I found myself standing up and walking out! I made some rude remark to the man on the door about everyone being mad.<BR/><BR/>Fast forward 4 years later. I have had a number of spiritual experiences and as a result have been living the life of a hermit, holed up in my flat reading every spiritual book I can get my hands on. Then my spiritual bubble bursts in the most cruellest of ways that I won't go into here and I am plunged into the deepest and darkest despair. <BR/><BR/>In my flat alone one Saturday night I thought to myself 'I am in hell, this has to be hell, I have been thrown out of the spiritual world and I can't get back into the conventional world', this must be hell'. Then I heard either a loud thought or a voice that said 3words with great authority. These words were 'do Landmark Forum'. <BR/><BR/>I then remembered the introductory evening I had walked out of 4 years ago. Up to that point I had never thought of that evening nor had I met anybody who had talked to me again about it. Remembering brought me a huge sense of relief and the next day I called the office in London and asked when the next introductory evening was. The lady said that there was 1 the next Wednesday evening. <BR/><BR/>I went along heard it all so differently and signed up and did the next weekend Forum which was in September 2005. Since then my spiritual insights and understandings has accelerated beyond anything I ever thought possible.<BR/><BR/>Why have I told this? I want to firstly show how the identity, that which runs us is ever alert and vigilant for any threat to its survival. The Landmark technology provides an ontological study into the nature and operation of being. How you and me have been put together as human beings. In this process our identity is under the spotlight like nothing else. The identity is aware that this is a threat because the end result of such an ontological study is transformation and this is a threat to the survival of the identity. <BR/><BR/>I have not done the EST training so am not going to comment. I am aware that the weekend Forum is a modification of the EST training but again I think the EST training realised that to cause transformation the process has to be severe in order to uncover the unconscious drives used by the identity that rule our lives. The irony is that we think that we are in control of our lives when it is the identity that is running the show the whole time.<BR/><BR/>One aspect of the identity is called a 'point of view' this is a view we have sentenced ourselves to in order to deal with some failure in our environment when we were young' My point of view is 'I'm not loved, I'm alone' and so there are very few occassions when I do feel related. I understand how we are all connected but connection isn't the same as related. So I see my inability to feel related as a function of the operating of my point of view and not anything to do with the people who are on this training programme with me. <BR/><BR/>The challenge for me is to recognise that this is the 'point of view' operating and create a way of being that is opposite to it.<BR/><BR/>The people who do these programmes are committed to making a difference in the world. Much of the way, in results, that the programmes produce depends on the interests of those who do them. I have stated that I am consciously taking on the spiritual journey so this leads me to taking the insights I receive and applying them spiritually. <BR/><BR/>Not all people use the programme like this so without a vigilance over the ego identity of course some arrogance and failures and frailties of human being are there. It is not promoted as a spiritual programme so while the safeguards of honesty and integrity and being true to one's word are there the identity is also always going to be there.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for being balanced in your comment and giving acknowledgement for what you did get from the trainings. I find that the more I go on and do the fiercer my resistance becomes and I understand that this is because I am getting very close to the origin of the identity. <BR/><BR/>With regard to your comment about enrolling people to go on these training courses. I was also in that space. What I have learned is that transformation is not something that can be bought in a shop. It comes alive when it is shared with others. Given that we are all connected and it is an illusion brought about by maya that we are seen as separate, when I touch, move and inspire another I am doing the same for me. <BR/><BR/>If transformation is not shared, it dies. If I don't share what I got about my pretence in wanting my book to be published but the truth being that I wouldn't give up control, see that, give it up and invent a new way of being that is the opposite of control which is being free and sharing that, it wouldn't be as strong as it is. <BR/><BR/>The purpose in sharing and enrolling is for others to see how the technology makes possible ways of being that are victories over the past. And the next step is to want everyone to have those victories over the past and be free. I am a stand that people don't wait until they are on their death bed to be free...<BR/><BR/>Plato said the unexamined life is not worth living. The landmark technology as well as others provides the tools for this examination, this is its purpose, to provide the tools so that everyone can get what it is they want from life.<BR/><BR/>The spiritual journey is a cosmic battle between the ego and the soul. It is the game between the ONE and the many and it is a game which is not given up easily. The most effective weapon the identity has in its arsenal against transformation is projection, criticism and judgement. Look and go beyond the appearance of all of this for what is possible.....<BR/><BR/>Thanks again Harry, I enjoyed reading and responding to your comment. I am aware that I didn't speak about 'The Life Training' but I don't know about this. I am intrigued however about the experience you allude to and hope to hear about it some day. Find a way to share this because it will give an access to others to become present to the beauty of the spirtual journey within themselves.<BR/><BR/>I acknowledge you for choosing powerfully to walk away from all such trainings to instead reflect and meditate on your own experiences. That is authentic and will bring you many insights and realizations....do however be vigilant about the identity!<BR/><BR/>All the best<BR/><BR/>MargaretMargaret Dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17385395565359693331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8830933917349183001.post-22931984387986422622008-11-29T02:25:00.000-08:002008-11-29T02:25:00.000-08:00Hi MargaretWhen I was living in London I did some ...Hi Margaret<BR/><BR/>When I was living in London I did some LGAT trainings (large group awareness trainings), namely, 'Est','The Forum' & 'The Life Training', I did most of these <BR/>trainings in hotels around London, including that big hotel at Liverpool St station. They were two very long weekends 9am - 12 midnight both days with <BR/>limited breaks for tea, lunch et & no going to the toilet or moving out of your seat until the trainers authorised a designated break. All these trainings <BR/>were very expensive & like you, I went on to assist at other trainings & was given some quite heavy responsibilities.<BR/><BR/>I can identify with what you are saying about 'not feeling comfortable & not belonging or being related to these people' because I went through all this. I <BR/>felt at the time that some of the people I was 'on team' with were amongst some of the most judgemental unconscious arseholes I had ever met. Despite them <BR/>doing these training's & purporting to be enlightened & having 'Got it! (est) & being on a spiritual path etc & taking responsibility for their experience <BR/>etc etc. I found them angry, blaming & highly competitive in terms of their positions & authority within the training context. Some were very pushy. I was <BR/>also not comfortable about the pressure to communicate my experience with a view to enrolling others onto the training I felt, in the end that I was really <BR/>on a training course that was about selling & making money all wrapped up in a lot of psycho babble & bullshit. I do acknowledge that I definitely have some <BR/>issues about working & giving up my time free of charge on these types of courses. It seemed to me that they were making a fortune by enrolling people onto <BR/>these courses & all the staff were volunteers working for free. The only people who were paid were the trainers. I found out about all these trainings <BR/><BR/>through <BR/>my own research & still 'believe' that people who are really interested in this kind of thing will take the time to find their own way forward.<BR/><BR/>In the end I stopped participating in these groups & courses, I acknowledge that all this stuff was my experience, that somehow I must have been creating it, <BR/>but then I also have the free will to choose not to participate with them any more & have a happier experience away from these people, I create this <BR/>experience also.<BR/><BR/>Now all of this sound very negative, I know. I have learnt things about myself as a result of doing these trainings & that was valuable. I had a massive <BR/>breakthrough when I did 'Est' even a long term health issue dissapeared overnight after doing this training, which must prove it was psychosomatic. No Doctor <BR/>ever cured me of it. I also had an incredible experience on a 2 day workshop called 'Opening The Heart' run by the 'Life Training' people, I will tell you <BR/>about this another time. <BR/><BR/>We are all on a spiritual path really. Life is one long learning curve. In a way 'Life' is the real 'trainer' or 'guru'. Sometimes we place ourselves in <BR/>positions that speed this process up & then life can become a roller-coaster. I think at one time I was in danger of becoming 'a trainings junky', I was <BR/>always looking for the next thing or enrolling on the 'advanced course' etc. All of this is fine, but walking away from it is fine also. I have found better <BR/>understanding about myself by reflecting & meditating on my experiences. Maybe I'm on the 'slow path' again, but then I have got eternity to discover the <BR/>truth & in the process of slowing down my training I am learning to enjoy the simple things in life in 'the present moment'.<BR/><BR/>Best wishes <BR/><BR/>HarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com